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Tim Hall has done it again! He has just released the 2nd edition of "Max Power".
Rather than get into details here, I urge you to check out this announcement post.
It's a massive upgrade, and well worth checking out. -E

 

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Thread: R70 "Free Upgrade" Check Point Promo Discussion

  1. #61
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    Default Re: R70 "Free Upgrade" Check Point Promo Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by HartmutB View Post
    Thanks for your response, but for "enduser accounts" there is no "Partner Info" visible. And other than sending me this type of promo mails to have me contact a reseller, CP won't contact me, that's sure ...
    As long as I've been in the Check Point ecosystem, they've always sold via reseller channels.

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    Default Re: R70 "Free Upgrade" Check Point Promo Discussion

    I think the whole point here is that Check Point don't understand their customers
    Oh, I'd say they understand their customers very well. They keep pushing changes like this and they keep reporting record revenues.

    Check Point is not in the security business at all. They are in the business of making money and they just happen to be doing it with security products today. If that stops working for them, they'll move in another direction.

    I figure it's like the description of a job. A job is a place you go every day where you do just enough work to keep from getting fired and where the company pays you just enough money to keep you from quitting.

    Old time vendors provide you just enough functionality to keep you happy and increase their prices right to the point before they have massive defections from their products.

    They stepped over the line with their first incarnation of forcing blade license conversions (I won't call it an "upgrade"). I think they're trying to get back to the other side of the line. Their financial results in a year will tell the story.

    Ray

  3. #63
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    Default Re: R70 "Free Upgrade" Check Point Promo Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoneBoy View Post
    I expect this non-official, my-best-guess answer will get a few "vendor shill" comments thrown my way. :)

    I could be wrong, but I believe the per-year price charged to customers for support for a given SKU is the same over the lifetime of that SKU. While I have no inside knowledge, I suspect the cost of providing that support goes up year-over-year. A SKU change (e.g. the NGX to Software Blades migration) seems to be the most logical place to resync those costs.
    We're looking at this from the wrong direction. Why do they keep selling products that need support for years afterwards? They want it both ways: they sell us software that doesn't work, then string us along for years with various fixes, charging us a small fortune every year for the privilege, then claim that their costs for supporting it have now gone up. And just as the product starts getting stable, they EOL it to force us into yet another upgrade into yet another broken product that needs even more years of expensive forced "support".

    If they were to simply sell us working software, it wouldn't need all this "support" and everybody's problems would be solved. Your move, Check Point.
    Barry J. Stiefel ("Stee-ful" or "Shtee-ful")
    B.S., MBA, CCSA/CCSE/CCSE+/CCSI
    Resilience RCSE/RCSI, Fortinet FCSE
    CISSP, MCSE, NSA ISM
    Founder of CPUG
    Founder of CPUG University

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    Default Re: R70 "Free Upgrade" Check Point Promo Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoneBoy View Post
    As long as I've been in the Check Point ecosystem, they've always sold via reseller channels.
    Of cause, you're right. But then, I don't unterstand, why they sent mails to me, show promo ads with links on the webpage and in the usercenter, allow me to fill forms to be contacted (you have all the information, I'm your customer !)

    If there was something for free (just a change of licencing model), why not put the calculator in the user center for all, provide a button "change licence type" and come back to me at next renewal date. Please don't tell me, that you need resale help just not to get worse with CP because subscription might get higher. And if resale *is* needed because of upgrade payments, why not at least give everyone the chance to check all this out first, before a resellers salesman will take your time and coffee ...


    Greetings,
    Hartmut

  5. #65
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    Default Re: R70 "Free Upgrade" Check Point Promo Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by chillyjim View Post
    And this is the answer...



    From the new tool...

    Code:
    CPSG-P202-CPSM-P303-F
    Check Point Security bundle - including SG202 and SM303 
    (FireWall, VPN, Network Policy Management, Endpoint Policy Management 
    and Logging and Status)	$0
    						
    						
    CPSG-P203-CPSM-P303	
    Check Point Security bundle - including SG203 and SM303
     (includes Firewall,  VPN, IPS, Network Policy Management, 
    Endpoint Policy Management, Logging & Status Blades)	$1,300
    Thanks for the update, the tool now DOES reflect this.

    I do have a question. The end user had a valid SD subscription before with his CPUTM-CKP-3-100.

    What happens to the SD part when you go SG202?

  6. #66
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    Default Re: R70 "Free Upgrade" Check Point Promo Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by BarryStiefel View Post
    Why do they keep selling products that need support for years afterwards?
    As with Thorpuse, I'd rather this thread was about licensing conversions, but regards the above, we pay support not just for the ability to log tickets, but so that we can upgrade to new versions as they are released, without having to purchase the full product again.

  7. #67
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    Default Re: R70 "Free Upgrade" Check Point Promo Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by northlandboy View Post
    so that we can upgrade to new versions as they are released, without having to purchase the full product again.
    /begin rant/
    ...and yet with every new generation, this is exactly what we end up being forced into doing. Buying newer more expensive licenses with little or no additional functionality and higher support costs. All without getting 100% credit on trading in the very product we have already been paying maintenance fees for so that we could 'upgrade' for free.

    I remember the whole concept of 'software maintenance' when it started. Let's pick one example: Backup Exec. Bought a license for x number of hosts, paid for 3 years maintenance plus support. 1 year later, new product rolls out and they sent me the software and said call for a new key since I am under maintenance. THAT was what maintenance fees were supposed to be for. I wasn't charged for the new product or even asked to trade-in my old license for 60% credit towards the new product.

    What CP is doing with this re-branding all the time is not innovative, it's just robbery. If I am paying for maintenance, at least make it fair and guarantee me 100% trade-in credit when the branding changes. I have gone rounds with my local CP sales team on this point on many occasions. And if they could ever possibly contact me again this will once again be a major topic of discussion. (I rarely see or hear from them even though I am one of their largest accounts in the SE US - go figure...)
    /end rant/

    Sorry for going slightly off topic, but nothing from CP is free even if you are paying yearly 'maintenance' fees.
    There's no place like 127.0.0.1

  8. #68
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    Default Re: R70 "Free Upgrade" Check Point Promo Discussion

    Why do they keep selling products that need support for years afterwards?
    Did you just describe the anti-virus model? :-)

    Same answer. The threats change almost daily so updates are needed.

    Functionality needs change periodically, such as more people using VoIP, so the product has to adapt.

    You don't have to pay support. My licenses, except for SmartDefense, say they never expire. And I think I can write my own SD or IPS sigs if I were so inclined and talented.

    We pay for support because we either want to or our business needs dictate that we have to. And if the business needs dictate so (like PCI or government regulators), companies would be stupid to give support away unless they're trying to build a business.

    Ray

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    Default Re: R70 "Free Upgrade" Check Point Promo Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by hotice_ View Post
    Thanks for the update, the tool now DOES reflect this.

    I do have a question. The end user had a valid SD subscription before with his CPUTM-CKP-3-100.

    What happens to the SD part when you go SG202?
    Best guess on this is that the SD would not be affected, and this would give you access to IPS and IPS updates until the end of the subscription. At which point you would need an IPS subscription renewal.

    Disclaimer : I don't work for CP (anymore) but I do claim honourary CCLE status! :)

  10. #70
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    Default Re: R70 "Free Upgrade" Check Point Promo Discussion

    There's a big difference between a Software Subscription, which provides for software updates such as anti-virus signatures, or even patches and fixes, and a Support Contract, which means you can ask for help if something doesn't work properly.

    Even though a customer may just want the Software Subscription, we pretty much have to pay for the support also because some of the software patches or upgrades wreck our systems, generating a need for support calls. It's gotten to the point where Check Point keeps us contstantly upgrading into buggy software, the buggy software creates the need for the Software Subscription and the Software Subscription creates the need for the Support Contract.

    We should be more honest with our customers and tell them that after they pay for the expensive software licenses, you'll almost certainly need to keep paying for "support", and the cost of ownership will increase over time, not decrease. I think this is just in the nature of being a Check Point customer.
    Barry J. Stiefel ("Stee-ful" or "Shtee-ful")
    B.S., MBA, CCSA/CCSE/CCSE+/CCSI
    Resilience RCSE/RCSI, Fortinet FCSE
    CISSP, MCSE, NSA ISM
    Founder of CPUG
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    Default Re: R70 "Free Upgrade" Check Point Promo Discussion

    The notion that CP is selling "buggy" software as an incentive to drive up our need for paid support is ridiculous at best (but don't tell Micrsoft about that model, or we're all screwed!). I'd ask again that we keep this thread about licensing, and particularly about the issues around this promo discussion.

  12. #72
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    Default Re: R70 "Free Upgrade" Check Point Promo Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by hotice_ View Post
    Thanks for the update, the tool now DOES reflect this.

    I do have a question. The end user had a valid SD subscription before with his CPUTM-CKP-3-100.

    What happens to the SD part when you go SG202?
    As I understand it (and how it is working currently), the SMFD subscription is good for IPS until it runs out, then you will purchase a IPS-Blade subscription.

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    Default Re: R70 "Free Upgrade" Check Point Promo Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorpuse View Post
    This would have to be (yet another) custom SKU to work, unless they're going to take you up to 500 users. Hmm... simple? flexible?

    I have another question about this - actually it's a more general question about multicore licenses. One of my upgrades is going to be to a bundle, where the GW component will be upgraded to a SG805. However, that gateway is part of a cluster, and the other cluster member is only rated for an upgrade to SG203U or SG405. Can a cluster work with the licensing set to different core counts?
    The answer is NO : see Solution ID: sk42096 Cluster member with CoreXL is in 'Ready' state
    ...Make sure the number of cores on all cluster members is the same...

    :( It can work, but you should use only 2 cores..( not tested, and pay 1 Support rate for 4 core -SG405)
    Last edited by serlud; 2009-12-11 at 07:45.

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    Default Re: R70 "Free Upgrade" Check Point Promo Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by serlud View Post
    The answer is NO : see Solution ID: sk42096 Cluster member with CoreXL is in 'Ready' state
    ...Make sure the number of cores on all cluster members is the same...

    :( It can work, but you should use only 2 cores..( not tested, and pay 1 Support rate for 4 core -SG405)
    Thanks Serlud. I'm not surprised, but am disappointed. This will hurt a lot of the upgrade processes here, ironically it's the value-adds that will lose out. This pushes customers towards the $0 upgrade options and not the "pay a little extra" option. Oops....

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    Default Re: R70 "Free Upgrade" Check Point Promo Discussion

    Hello,

    as I'm getting lost in product numbers and upgrade options, I'd like to ask a (simple for those, who unterstand it) question about blade trade-in:

    We have 2 systems on R70 but still NGX license, with:

    2x CPUTM-CKP-3-250 (UTM-Management and Gateway Bundle for 3 sites & 250 users)
    1x CPVP-VSC-25 (VPN-1 SecureClient for Windows for 25 Users)
    1x CPUTM-SMDF-250 (SmartDefense Services for VPN-1 UTM 250 Users, Anual Subscription)

    All in all, the license value is 20.300$ plus 1.200$ / anno for SD now.


    After waiting a long time for an offer, our resale partner sent use the following trade-in option:

    2x CPSG-P202-CPSM-P303-F-CKP (to my unterstanding: SG202 with 2 cores, FW and IPSEC VPN / SM303 with Policy, Endpoint Policy and Logging)
    1x "Endpoint Secure Access 1 to 99 / 25 users" upgrade from CPVP-VSC-25 for only a few dollars

    My questions:

    1. We are using systems with both management and gateway on the same machine. Still possible with the combination SG202 + SM 303 ?
    2. Can we continue to use SecureClient as VPN client with the new Endpoint Secure Access license and still use desktop policy ?
    3. Can someone confirm, that the SD subscripton will continue to work as IPS as long as the subscrition lasts (has been asked before) ?
    4. As we are already on R70: Will it only be activating the new license on the machine(s) or more to change ?


    Just to mention: Our license value will be almost the same after a licence change (rising from 20.300 to 20.500$), but annual costs would rise significantly because of SD to IPS conversion (now: 1200$/year, with blade: 3000$/year).


    Thanks a lot for your help !

    Regards,
    Hartmut

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    Default Re: R70 "Free Upgrade" Check Point Promo Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by HartmutB View Post
    My questions:

    1. We are using systems with both management and gateway on the same machine. Still possible with the combination SG202 + SM 303 ?
    2. Can we continue to use SecureClient as VPN client with the new Endpoint Secure Access license and still use desktop policy ?
    3. Can someone confirm, that the SD subscripton will continue to work as IPS as long as the subscrition lasts (has been asked before) ?
    4. As we are already on R70: Will it only be activating the new license on the machine(s) or more to change ?


    Just to mention: Our license value will be almost the same after a licence change (rising from 20.300 to 20.500$), but annual costs would rise significantly because of SD to IPS conversion (now: 1200$/year, with blade: 3000$/year).
    Yes to all of the above. Isn't this fun?

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    Default Re: R70 "Free Upgrade" Check Point Promo Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorpuse View Post
    Yes to all of the above. Isn't this fun?
    @Thorpuse: Thank's for clearing this up for me !

    Regarding "fun": I know, the discussion is old, but there will be a talk to my boss today something like this:

    "Boss, we quickly have to decide if we change our Firewall to "blade-licensing". The offer is only valid this week because of chrismas holiday and it will only cost us a few dollars now".
    "OK, if we can save money, let's do it. BTW, what do we gain ?"
    "Oh, to be honest: Nothing. We won't change our installation at all, but will be "future-proof". And ... maintenance will rise for about 2000$ every next year, because of the new license model, but if we don't change now, it will be much expensier in the future ..:"
    "Understood. Can we drop Checkpoint ?"
    "..."

    I guess, we won't drop. But at next mainenance renewal, I'm not sure, if IPS subscription will still be an option for us.

    Regards,
    Hartmut

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    Default Re: R70 "Free Upgrade" Check Point Promo Discussion

    Hi there,

    I have some questions regarding the free "Equivalent Functionality" upgrade.

    Running NGX R65, customer has a clustered pair of UTM-1 570's.
    With also a single CPUTM-QOS-1 license, which in NGX is/was per "site", site being a gateway OR cluster.

    My concern is that unless I'm wrong, under the new blade licensing model, any "per site" feature is vanished, and must now be licensed per individual gateway, even inside a cluster.
    I think that this applies as well to the concept of "number of managed gateways/sites", from a Smartcenter perspective.

    Regarding QOS:
    Customer gets only a single CPSB-ADN license (at least that's what the calculator says)
    What about the QOS license for the second node?

    Regarding # of managed sites:
    The original 570(NGX) could manage 3 sites.
    The 572(blade) that the calculator proposes as free upgrade can manage 2 gateways.
    So where customer could previously manage two *additional* gateways or clusters, now he can manage two at best...if not zero in case CP counts the 2 nodes of the cluster itself as the manageable "2 gateways"

    Either I'm mistaken, or terms like "free equivalent functionality upgrade" doesn't apply very well to this case...

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    Default Re: R70 "Free Upgrade" Check Point Promo Discussion

    @Netmind - these are all very valid questions, and I think your analysis regarding site/gateway is correct. The number of managed sites is not the only outstanding question - I'm trying to find out about the SA-5 Remote Access licenses and SmartPortal that also used to be included.

    All this stuff needs to go back to CP. Don't expect an answer in a hurry though - it took them a month to even get an upgrade matrix sorted for UTM-1's, I expect it will take even longer to sort this out.

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    Default Re: R70 "Free Upgrade" Check Point Promo Discussion

    I have forwarded the above about CPUTM-QOS-1 to Product Management for comment. Let's see what they come back with.

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