R70 "Free Upgrade" Check Point Promo Discussion

[serlud]

Free Upgrade promo problems:

Current config FW-Cluster HA mode :
CPFW-FM-U $7.280
CPPWR-VPG-U $12.500 (it was not possible to buy CPFW-FW-U since .(not sure) 2001...)

SS $19780*0.15=$2967
we can run two standalone FW, or FW and FW-VPN

Software Blades:
CPSG-C201U-F $8.000 FW
CPSG-P204U-F $15.000 FW,VPN,ACCL, ADN
SS $23000*0.15=$3450 SS increasing - 16.27% ? -no cluster possible.

According to CP :2.1.7 In High availability configuration, do I need to mirror the blades on the primary and
on the secondary gateways?
Yes. The same exact blades should be deployed on both primary and secondary gateways.
Now we should get an discount for CPSG-C201U-F-HA $7.200 and buy 3 additionla blades VPN-HA, ACCL-HA-ADN-HA
One time invest 3*1200=$3600 (probably you can get this free credit from CP just do not forget about rates... every years...)
and SS for CPSG-P204U-Cluster $25800*0.15=$3870 just +30% (we will get more but we do not need more SKU just simple FW (CP care about customer - forget it never : Answer: SG101U/SG201U - no business needs, but you will get an SG203U for free.)

End of Life for License SG201U-F...? -we can not find this information in current lifetime for all CP products., new one do not exist -SG201U - can not be used for any new deployments (you cannot buy an ~) / No you can every time buy an SG203U and 2 additional Blades VPN-HA, IPS-HA.. or you can make tradein to SG401U - be happy CP customer - you will get all that you need even for single core CPUs. With next revolution you will get an SG3299 (the same CP path since 1998)

Both new lics can not run in Cluster ??? it will be more Flexible...
Standalone possible 2xFWs, or FW and FW-VPN
Questions?????

Flexibility:
Lic NG/NGX, 25 user.
Current situation (one customer only): 9 Lics.
4xCPMP-VPG-25-NG $3120 CPSG-P103-F-VPG $4200
2xCPFW-FM-25-NG $2080 CPSG-C101 $2000
1xCPMP-HVPG-25-NG $2496 CPSG-P103-HA-F-VPG (FW,VPN,ADN) $2720
2xCPVP-VFM-25-NG $2600 CPSG-P102-F (FW,VPN) $3025

Current possibility (not all): we are using only FW and VPN SKUs.
1. 8xFW or 2xFW and 6xFW+VPN
2. 1xFW-ClusterHA and 3xFW-VPN-ClusterHA or 4xFW-Cluster



Lic SB:
4xCPSG-P103-F-VPG $4200
2xCPSG-C101 $2000
1xCPSG-P103-HA-F-VPG (FW,VPN,ADN) $2720
2xCPSG-P102-F (FW,VPN) $3025
New possibility (not all): we are using only FW and VPN SKUs.
1. 8xFW or 2FW and 6xFW+VPN
2. 1x CPSG-P103-ClusterHA ????


We would like to see even more flexibility after migration to Software Blade migration.
Please provide us with correct migration patch.
To have the same flexibility and to migrate to software blade we see 2 ways:
1: Migration should be : 8xCPSG-C101-F, 1xCPSG-C101-HA-F, 7xVPN-F, 1xADN (due to SecPlatPro (central Radius) we will get an 2 ADN-LICs for 1/2 of Lics. /independens.)
It should be also possible to make cluster from 2 primary lic :
• 2xCPSG-C101-F
• 2x(CPSG-C101-F+VPN-F) or CPSG-C101-F+VPN-F + CPSG-C101-F+VPN-F-HA or CPSG-C101-F+VPN-F + CPSG-C101-HA-F+VPN-HA-F

2: it should be possible to create FW (FW+VPN)Clusters from all new Software Blades Lics
FW-ClusterHA: CPSG-C101 + CPSG-P103-F-VPG(or CPSG-P103-HA-F or CPSG-P102-F)
FW+VPN ClusterHA: CPSG-P102+CPSG-P103-HA (or CPSG-P103-HA-F or CPSG-P103-F-VPG or )
Second way make it more complex due to not standart conversation. P103-F-VPG?

In both case we should be able to run updated Lics with new Lics
The same issue with all 250/Unlimited user Lics.

FAQ Software Blade (Classification: [Unrestricted]) R70HFA31 09.11.2009 to R70HFA32 10.02.2010 Revision control:
CPUTM-VUP-U VPN-1 $ 14,500 CPSGC202U-F(FW+VPN) +ADN+ACCL (+VPN +Acceleration Blade) R70HFA31
CPUTM-VUP-U VPN-1 $ 14,500 CPSGC204U-F(FW+VPN+ACCL+ADN) R70HFA32

[Nico57]

The upgrade matrix has just been updated! (Actually, the Excel and online calculators have been, not the PDF matrix yet).

Yesterday, I was proposed the following "Free Upgrade":
CPVP-VCT-U-NG => CPSG-P204U-CPSM-PU003-F (FW VPN ACCL ADN NPM EPM LOGS)

Today, it's:
CPVP-VCT-U-NG => CPSG-P203U-CPSM-PU003-F (FW VPN ADN NPM EPM LOGS)

The acceleration blade is gone!

Note that the previous upgrade actually made no sense to me.
We've never had PPK or Load Sharing (which is what ACCL is all about, right?) on CPVP-CT-U-NG.

And indeed, it seems the initial offering was just the current new one.
But some people thought SecureXL was missing, complained about it and CP acknowledged that.
So now CP just changed back their mind.

This is bad news for people who've been postponing the migration to blades licensing and who need PPK or Load Sharing.
And there's little chance that the new/old CPSG-P203U-CPSM-PU003-F ends up with a lower list price (and hence a lower support cost) since, in the old matrix, CPSG-P204U-CPSM-PU003-F = CPSG-P202U-CPSM-PU003-F = $22,000.

One more proof that everyone, especially at CP, is totally lost with this migration.

And this doesn't improve my own situation.
With only a fw cluster and mgmt (CPVP-VCT-U-NG + CPMP-HVPG-U-NG), the logical free upgrade would be a CPSG-P203U-CPSM-P1003, which just does not exist.
(Yes we currently have an unlimited management, but that's how all mgmt were by 2003, which doesn't mean that's what we need now, it only boosts our support costs.)
I asked my reseller quote me a CPSG-P405-CPSM-P1003 + CPSG-P405-HA upgrade instead => $9,500! Ouch!!! And that's (supposedly) with a 35% rebate!

[PhoneBoy]

The intent behind the "free" upgrade from NGX is to give you "same or better" functionality under Software Blades. This is why even if you don't need unlimited gateway management, you are being offered it.

Performance Pack (i.e. PPK) is equivalent to the Acceleration Blade in R70. Makes sense that your "free" upgrade didn't include ACCL since your original SKU did not.

[serlud]

Originally Posted by PhoneBoy

The intent behind the "free" upgrade from NGX is to give you "same or better" functionality under Software Blades.

"Free" upgrade from NGX is to give CP "same or better" Software subcribtion rates. *Same* ist about 10% , *better* ist about 40% - please again do not say that CP care about Customers need.
By just adding MC2 and CoreXL SKUs - you will recieve the same and even better functionality. -if you do not need it, it is you problem not CP, you have it for *Free*
It will be much easy to just add new LIC MC2+CoreXL - the problem here no one will buy it. - that is why CP make Revolution...

[mcnallym]

Has anyone else noticed that after performing the free upgrade to Software Blades that the existing support for the product seems to have disappeared.

We have just upgraded our Eventia Licenses to R70 Software Blades (the NGX licenses don't work) and despite them being MSP pricing on a 3 year deal the free upgrade shows as having no support?

Looks like even if you take the free upgrade, you are still going to get charged for a new support agreement. As our eventia is linked to the Provider-1 then we had no choice as the R65 Eventia won't talk to an R70 Provider-1.

As the upgrade was performed through Account Services then I have raised this with them, as hoping this is mistake / oversight by them.

[PhoneBoy]

My understanding, mcnallym, is that the "free" upgrade should keep your existing support in place. It should not require either an upfront payment (unless you go for the "enhanced" option) nor should it take away existing support. Your annual support will be repriced at the next renewal, though.

If Account Services did this upgrade for you, I'm fairly certain they will be able to make this right.

[GlennBrz]

Originally Posted by PhoneBoy

My understanding, mcnallym, is that the "free" upgrade should keep your existing support in place. It should not require either an upfront payment (unless you go for the "enhanced" option) nor should it take away existing support. Your annual support will be repriced at the next renewal, though.

If Account Services did this upgrade for you, I'm fairly certain they will be able to make this right.

Sometimes, after upgrades like this, support does fail to attach. Not terribly unusual. A quick follow up with order processing or account services has always fixed this for me. In the free upgrade case, I would expect that they will extend support for the blades to the same term as your NGX licenses at no extra extra charge, even if the new value of the licenses has increased. At least that has been my experience to date.

[mcnallym]

Glad to here it. We just went for the free upgrade option, there was no enhancement that we went with.

I did raise with Account Services sho should be dealt with hopefully.

[serlud]

Originally Posted by PhoneBoy

The intent behind the "free" upgrade from NGX is to give you "same or better" functionality under Software Blades. This is why even if you don't need unlimited gateway management, you are being offered it.

Performance Pack (i.e. PPK) is equivalent to the Acceleration Blade in R70. Makes sense that your "free" upgrade didn't include ACCL since your original SKU did not.

one example NGX:
one SmartCenter (for one gateway), one Cluster for 250 user, SmartView Monitoring Unlimited, Eventia for 5 Gateway:
Software Blade:
SmartCenter for 2 gateway, Cluster for 250 user, SmartView Monitoring Unlimited Eventia for 10 Gateway - will not work any more:

Please make trade in: SmartCenter Unlimited, Eventia Unlimited.
Prise ? Support increasing?

Performance Pack (i.e. PPK) is not equivalent to the Acceleration Blade in R70
ACCL has also ClusterXL again for "free".

[PhoneBoy]

It sounds like you're getting "same or better" on the "free" tradein: you can manage an extra gateway and you can do Eventia for 5 extra gateways. Everything else seems equal. Am I missing something? Can you explain in more detail why this doesn't work for you?

[serlud]

Originally Posted by PhoneBoy

It sounds like you're getting "same or better" on the "free" tradein: you can manage an extra gateway and you can do Eventia for 5 extra gateways. Everything else seems equal. Am I missing something? Can you explain in more detail why this doesn't work for you?

Just calculate current support rate and future support rate - nothing else..:) this will explain - why it does not work for us.

[lammbo]

Originally Posted by serlud

Just calculate current support rate and future support rate - nothing else..:) this will explain - why it does not work for us.

Dude, really?!? We know you're not happy, NONE of us are happy with the 'blade license revolution' and all of the associated PITA that it has created. As such, we are all entitled to our fair share of bitching and complaining. But don't you think enough is enough already? For at least the last 2 weeks, whenever I see a post by you I DREAD reading it. Please stop, for the sake of the community if for no other reason. Work it out with your channel partners like all the rest of us.

[boldin]

Originally Posted by lammbo

Dude, really?!? We know you're not happy, NONE of us are happy with the 'blade license revolution' and all of the associated PITA that it has created. As such, we are all entitled to our fair share of bitching and complaining. But don't you think enough is enough already? For at least the last 2 weeks, whenever I see a post by you I DREAD reading it. Please stop, for the sake of the community if for no other reason. Work it out with your channel partners like all the rest of us.

Beat me to it by three hours...

[serlud]

Originally Posted by lammbo

But don't you think enough is enough already?
...

It is not too late now, we have just start our migration, but could not find any ways to make it....

Originally Posted by boldin

Beat me to it by three hours...

It seems you miss a point of this thread :
R70 "Free Upgrade" Check Point Promo Discussion (not discussion about my comments, in any case you can send me PM)

If you do not want to discuss , just do not read this thread.
You can also work with your channel partners like all the rest of you.
If you do not care about your customer it is also only your problem.

In any case I will never force you to read my comments.:)

[northlandboy]

Originally Posted by serlud

If you do not want to discuss , just do not read this thread.
You can also work with your channel partners like all the rest of you.
If you do not care about your customer it is also only your problem.

In any case I will never force you to read my comments.:)

OK, but at least contain it to this thread, and not others like the Gaia thread, so we know which ones to avoid.

[boldin]

You seemed to have missed our point: There's no two(edit: or more)-way discussion lately. All of it is complaints about the same problem of which we are all already aware.

[serlud]

Originally Posted by boldin

You seemed to have missed our point: There's no two(edit: or more)-way discussion lately. All of it is complaints about the same problem of which we are all already aware.

We have provide an CP with the way for implementation of SB and you?
see my post :We can provide you with very simple sollution HOW TO migrate to Software Blade to archive a goals (This sollution is absolute FREE OF CHARGE) :

[PhoneBoy]

Your suggestions on NGX to Software Blades migrations have been duly noted and passed on to the right people inside Check Point, serlud. It doesn't mean you'll get what you're asking for, of course, but I've done my part as the vendor rep in this discussion.

[Nico57]

Hey, my free upgrade proposal changed again!
Now I'm offered to upgrade my single CPVP-VCT-U-NG to two CPSG-P203U-CPSM-PU003-F gateways!
Could have been a nice deal if I actually needed the extra one.
NB: the second one really is a CPSG-P204U-CPSM-PU003-F, since it also includes the ACCL blade.

Anyone knows what's the rationale behind this?
Didn't the single license already allow for being split between two boxes? (gateway vs management)
And why has the ACCL finally been brought back? (It was removed a few weeks ago, see my last post).

So now we've got:
- one offer in the PDF upgrade matrix (CPSG-P204U-CPSM-PU003-F)
- another one in the Excel "calculator" (CPSG-P203U-CPSM-PU003-F)
- yet another one in the online upgrade form (both of them in a single pack!)
How long before it changes again? I'm taking bets!

[PhoneBoy]

Without having talked with the folks responsible for this recently, I think it's safe to say the "free" upgrade is being tweaked on a regular basis.