Something needs to be said

[firewalz]

I may get flamed for this but it needs to be said. I first joined this list thinking it would be an exchange of test experiences and discussing various topics found on the test. But what I have found is mostly folks asking for brain dumps over and over, and questions being asked that have answers already posted.
1) you cannot rely on dumps alone, even if you pass the test, if this is your only experience you will not be able to manage a CP firewall in real life.
2) If you want the course material than shell out the $500 and buy it yourself, the investment will pay off. (it is the best printed material for the tests.)
3) Get hands on experience by any means nessesary, this is the only way you will learn, or get hired for that matter.

[abusharif]

Totally agree with you!

[david]

well said.

[northlandboy]

I completely agree- it seems that several people here have not read the various NDAs and contracts, for a start. Somewhat of an unwillingness to spend the time and effort learning how to use the product, putting in some hard yards. Far too many "me toos" from people who have only joined to post "me too", and do not appear to contribute anything back. I get the feeling some people think they can just get a Check Point certification, and then magically become a well-paid firewall admin. Guess what folks? It takes a bit more time and effort than that. You need real, hands-on experience with using not only Check Point products, but networks in general.

Then, as others have pointed out, the exams are not nearly so difficult. Interestingly when others have brought this up, they then get attacked for it.

I am quite willing to try and help when people post specific problems they are having, but it's another thing when people want stuff handed to them on a plate.

- Northlandboy

CCSE+, CCMSE.

[zarcoff]

So So TRUE

[Davinci1969]

Originally Posted by firewalz

... I first joined this list thinking it would be an exchange of test experiences and discussing various topics found on the test. But what I have found is mostly folks asking for brain dumps over and over, and questions being asked that have answers already posted.
1) you cannot rely on dumps alone, even if you pass the test, if this is your only experience you will not be able to manage a CP firewall in real life.

I have to agree here folks. There is nothing wrong with utilising the Test Kings, etc for ideas of areas to work on. However, they are not going to get you past the exam by themselves. Use the course material.

I come in here to read about experiences encountered on exams or people checking if they understand an area of study correctly, only to have to wade through countless 'Me too', 'email me',. If you can afford to sit the exam, surely you want to get it right first time! Buy the Test King yourself so you can get the updates! Download the Check Point clients and work through the Demo modes with the PDF's. This will allow you to answer the questions better.

I really hate the idea that I'm going to have to deal with another company whose Security Administrator sat the exam for the sole intention of getting more money only.

Please, do yourself a favour (and us by reducing the amount of 'Me too's! we have to wade through in these forums! I am not about to spend US$69.99 so I can give it to 'Me Too's!

Grrr (Rant over)

[raghavendra]

ya u r correct we need hands on experience....

[dean7711]

I totally agree...

You wouldnt happen to have the latest dumps would you?

[firewalz]

Thanks for all the support on this, I thought for sure I was going to get flamed.
BTW, I'm not just blowing smoke, I work in a fairly large provider-1 environment managing nearly 100 firewalls, mostly Nokia with some splat and Solaris mixed in. (I run R61 splat at home:)

[jsolomon]

Not only do I agree 100%, but I think more proactive action needs to be taken. Maybe just for this forum, posts should be moderator reviewed prior to posting or some sort of membership penalty associated with infraction.

I'm not trying to come off like some forum cop, but I take the pursuit of this certification seriously and so many certs today are losing value because any Joe can use a testking and or Boson/Transcender to pass a test. I'm tired of seeing requests for what are basically amounting to "walk me through the test".

[BarryStiefel]

Originally Posted by jsolomon

Not only do I agree 100%, but I think more proactive action needs to be taken. Maybe just for this forum, posts should be moderator reviewed prior to posting or some sort of membership penalty associated with infraction.

I'm not trying to come off like some forum cop, but I take the pursuit of this certification seriously and so many certs today are losing value because any Joe can use a testking and or Boson/Transcender to pass a test. I'm tired of seeing requests for what are basically amounting to "walk me through the test".

A few thoughts on this:

There's nothing that we could do here at cpug.org to suppress the practice test sellers. They're going to continue to sell these tests, some of which, I suspect, may be a little too similar to the actual tests to be a mere coincidence.

However, it's almost certainly a violation of the purchasing agreement if someone were to post a copy of the practice test here. I'm also not blind to the fact that many of our members come from countries where the $69.99 for a TestKing exam or $500 for Check Point courseware might be prohibitively expensive while a Check Point certification might be a ticket to a substantially higher income.

Nonetheless, if you don't have the legal right to publish something publicly, please don't publish it here.

I too, want to preserve the value and exclusivity of the Check Point certification exams, partially because I've earned several of them and partially because I teach a one-week CCSA/CCSE dual-certification course here in San Francisco.

I'm probably feeling a bit torn on this issue: I'm a firm believer in education and self-improvement, and in the benefits of collaboration in our user group here, and how for many people in our group $69.99 is a lot of money. Just please don't violate copyright agreements here.

As always, I'm open to hearing other opinions about this. I'm definitely not interested, however, in "moderating" or "approving" messages.

[GregH]

Originally Posted by BarryStiefel

I'm definitely not interested, however, in "moderating" or "approving" messages.

Barry,

While I whole heartedly understand your desire to not end up moderating (I'd prefer to have a root canal than suffer that).

I would suggest that something must be done with hoards of 'me too' emails with an embedded email address.

If these posters want whatever information is on offer for whatever reason, that's what the PM system is for.

A polite warning followed by a wholescale nuking of persistent offenders may encourager les autres.


Cheers

Greg

[BarryStiefel]

Originally Posted by GregH

Barry,

While I whole heartedly understand your desire to not end up moderating (I'd prefer to have a root canal than suffer that).

I would suggest that something must be done with hoards of 'me too' emails with an embedded email address.

If these posters want whatever information is on offer for whatever reason, that's what the PM system is for.

A polite warning followed by a wholescale nuking of persistent offenders may encourager les autres.


Cheers

Greg

OK, I've just added an announcement that will appear in all of these test-based forums. I'm also going to delete a bunch of the "me, too" messages.

Let me know how this works.

Barry

[zarcoff]

Hi All

My first post I just hear hear, but I just started a contract and the lead Checkpoint admin is a CCSA NGX and CCSE NGX, and couldn't even build a Windows 20003 Smartcentre and needed help building a IP530 so I say leave them to it they well be exsposed only hands on will do, Test-King and dumps engineers will be exposed for what they are in the end.


Just my 2p worth.



Cheers
Zarcoff

[Sergej]

Hi fellows,

I have a bunch of certificates and exams passed and certification levels completed (CheckPoint CCSEv4, CCSEvNG; Cisco CCNP, CCSP, CCIE; Microsoft MCSEvNT, MCSEv2000; HP AIS on Management products and Procurve switches; some older like Enterasys Systems Engineer; and some Citrix and Comptia)

Near all was prepared by myself, with no class trainings. I had a solid real life background for each topic. That mean I have a lot of time to compare different vendors courseware books, documentation as well as normal third part preparation books.

I'm thinking that CheckPoint courseware and exams are one of the worst I ewer seen in my life. It is pretty rare that the public documentation is better than overpriced courseware, but this is the CheckPoint story.

The main courseware problems:
1. Is it targeting "any key clicker" e.g. totally no tech details and what is happening inside.
2. It is overpriced.

I have read v4.0, vNG and vNGX versions. The last one is the most horrible.

[chillyjim]

Having asked about this while teaching Check Point classes, I was told that the point is to get people into the classes and learn from the teacher and the books are more of a reference for after class.

I agree, the books will not really help you pass the tests if you don't know what you are doing to begin with, I'm not sure if that a good or bad thing.

[BarryStiefel]

I'm reluctant to push my commercial enterprise too strongly here, but I've taught the official Check Point classes for years and they simply do not prepare you for the exams. It's not even close.

I kept this in mind when I developed my CCSA/CCSE Dual-Certification Boot Camp that I offer here in San Francisco. The course has double or triple the information that the official courseware has, and has much better labs. We have over a 90% success rate in getting students certified right in the classroom.

Even Check Point employees (Sales Engineers, etc.) are now taking my class because they need to get certified fast and the official courses just don't cut it.

If your primary goal is to get CCSA/CCSE certified, don't take the official course; send me a Private Message instead and we'll get you enrolled.

[Gavrilo]

I know this is an old post but I cannot resist giving my three pence worth.

Check Point courseware is vague, their training is vague and they could learn from Cisco etc. It was not until I spent time working with Check Point, viewing posts here and reading the Phone Boy books that I learned Check Point properly.

I think the problem a lot of people get is that if they are interested in Check Point products and want to work with them they need a certification. Without working with the product it is very hard to get a certification. Hence the Test King type dumps can get you certified and therfore can get you a job and if you are lucky you may last lon enough to gain the experience to be good at your job.

It seems it may be worth the risk.

Gavrilo